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Comment by Mary Anna Kruch on March 30, 2009 at 9:35am

http://www.rrvwp.und.edu/html/summerinstitutes.html
The University of North Dakota offers this summer institute at the link above.

Be sure to read a description of the institute, as it is not "three weeks of doing nothing but writing." You'll see. I highly recommend this to you. Once you see some of what you ask about in action, you will no dobut reassess, as many of us have, how writing should be taught.

I would not be able to answer your questions here, but I recommend that you read one or more of these books: It's Never Too Late (Janet Allen), Write to Learn (Donald M. Murray), Teaching Grammar in Context (Connie Weaver), Lessons to Share on Teacing Grammar in Context (ed. Connie Weaver), Democracy and Education (John Dewey), and Mind in Society: The Development of Higher Pschological Processes (L. S. Vygotsky). They will help you develop, hopefully, a more open mind of what is possible with students of ALL ages.

Good luck, and let me know when you sign up for the summer institute at Red River Valley Writing Project, which takes place in July. You should probably start updating your vitae and begin your letter of application, as a selection process likely occurs.

Happy Writing!
Mary Anna

Comment by Derri Scarlett on March 29, 2009 at 10:48pm

Hi, Mary Anna.

I checked out your book, and it sounds very exciting. You speak specifically of students in high school. What do you see as the differences in teaching high-schoolers, as opposed to college students? I'm wondering if it would be helpful for me.

Although I teach at the college level, my students are usually young, first-semester newbies with wide eyes and malleable minds. Love that part!

How do you get your students to be "facilitators"? I have them work in small teams, critiquing one another's essays and offering suggestions to improve them. Do you have other tips to offer? I'd love to hear.

The National Writing Project sounds fascinating; I envy you the chance to participate! Do you know if one is offered in/near Bismarck, N.D.? That's where I live. Though, I have to say, three weeks of doing nothing but discussing writing seems a bit daunting.

I'm a writer at heart, and I've always wanted a chance to do a writer's retreat, but have never been able to. I recently completed a novel with no one for company except my dogs. And they slept through it!

Anyway, if you have any tips, I'd appreciate them. As I mentioned in my earlier opus, I'm always trying to become a better teacher.

Best,

Derri

Comment by Mary Anna Kruch on March 29, 2009 at 8:21pm

P. S. I do not buy your defense of teaching writing in a manner that puts the power all in your hands. Students need to take on the responsibility for their learning, and the only way to accomodate this process is by trying out a different role---as a faciliatator. Have you read any of Nancie Atwell's books?

Comment by Mary Anna Kruch on March 29, 2009 at 8:18pm

HI Derri,

You may read about my book here: http://www.equinoxpub.com/books/showbook.asp?bkid=355

I don't think there is a debate, as far as I am concerned, about teaching writing.

I taught graduate students at MSU for several years as an adjunct instructor in the 80s-90s, and then I taught full-time pre-service teachers at Grand Valley State University for five years, following my retirement from classroom. My best teaching occurred after I had taken the summer institute at a National Writing Project chapter, Red Cedar Writing Project. It was life-changing to study, discuss, write, and teach demo lessons with 17 other teachers for 3 weeks of nearly all-day sessions. I heartily encourage you to find a chapter of NWP near you, experience true writing workshops and the chance to do some heavy-duty reflections about writing and your life---I bet you will have an entirely new view of how to teach writing.

Let me know if you would like for me to point you in the direction of a chapter near you. It is SO worth the time---plus, you either receive some grad credits or take an honorarium for participation. In which part of the country do you live?

Mary Anna

Comment by Derri Scarlett on March 29, 2009 at 6:33pm

Hi, Mary Anna.

I'm interested in your book: What is it about, exactly? Will it be a textbook? A book to use in writing workshops? I've tried to answer all of your questions below, and I've included a "defense" of top-down writing! Glad for the debate:

I did fiction-writing workshops all through college, virtually every semester. Later, I did informal, self-directed workshops with groups of friends who were also fiction writers. As a volunteer, I taught a fiction workshop at the high school level for several semesters. I currently teach English Comp, where I use peer reviews as kind of "mini" workshops every other week.

The best thing about the workshops I attended was the deadline! I'm a terrible procrastinator, but I always step up to the plate when there's an outside deadline.

Another good thing, which I utilize in the courses I teach now, is peer reviews. I liked having them when I was in workshops - knowing I didn't have to actually take any of the advice given! - and I find that they help my students develop their ability to analyze writing. I use pointed questions when my students do them: Is there anything missing? Is there something there that shouldn't be? Is the focus clear? Is the thesis clear? Is the intro compelling?... That kind of thing.

I never enforce specific topics, though I use guidelines for my Comp students; for example, an argument essay must be on a topic that is controversial. You can't argue that cancer is painful, or "mom" is good! When my students have to use a certain number of research sources, I direct them toward topics that lend themselves to research ("My First Pony" probably won't work out). In fiction workshops, I've used assigned topics for class-time exercises, but never for the several stories each had to write during the semester. For example, I occasionally gave my students a list of things that had to be included in a few-paragraphs-long writing session, or I asked them to rewrite a paragraph as if they were Nora Roberts, or Stephen King, or some other well-known writer.

I think I then enforce your hypothesis: I attended workshops all through college, and I've re-created them whenever possible - privately, and teaching at the high school and college level.

How do I see myself teaching in the future? Mostly the same way I do now, except, hopefully, better! I try to create an informal, relaxed atmosphere but make my students work their butts off! They write eight papers in sixteen weeks, a minimum of twenty-eight finished pages in total. When they are finished, they are no longer intimidated by writing assignments! I've had former students come back and thank me for my class, and some ask if I teach any of the other English classes they need to take. (I've suggested they do this to make sure they don't accidentally get me again, but they assure me the opposite is true!) I don't mind at all having a reputation as the most demanding Comp teacher (out of eight or ten).

Having said all that, I've only been teaching on the college level for a couple of years, and I've cycled through different schedules of teaching - three 50-minute classes/week, two 95-minute classes, and one 2.5-hour class. So I'm not really complacent, as yet. My classes have evolved, but my philosophy remains the same: Remove the mystique of writing, set high standards, and make my students feel good about themselves.

Now for my defense of top-down writing:

1. One of the biggest problems I see is that my students haven't done much writing K-12, and they're intimidated by the process. The only way to get past that is to write. So we do. A lot. From the first class. And I keep the process simple: write, edit, rewrite.

2. Another intimidation factor is that many of my students are not English-oriented and have come from years of red markings and low grades. I mark errors from the beginning, but - at first - don't deduct points. I introduce "grammar moments" after the second paper, highlighting mistakes that I see often, and warn my students that - post-grammar moment - there will be consequences if they still make those mistakes.

3. This one comes from my five years of teaching EFL to German adults: Students know a lot already, and letting them just write - without giving them every single building block beforehand in class - allows them to see where their strengths and weaknesses are. I reinforce this during one-on-one conferences midway through the term and with my notes on their biweekly papers.

4. In college workshops, I was told something I've found to be true after decades of reading and writing: There's no one right way to do it. For every writing rule one brings up, I can find ten cases where that rule has been successfully broken.

OK, that's probably enough! Please let me know what you think, and tell me about your book.

Thanks,

Derri

Comment by Mary Anna Kruch on March 29, 2009 at 4:48pm

Top-down writing is NO WAY to teach. So, here's a question, also posted as a new discussion topic:

My question to you is this: Have you experienced a true writing workshop in any of your K-16 years of education as a student? If so, explain. What stands out about this experience? Were you given choices in topic and selection of portfolio pieces? If not, please explain how you were taught and what you remember that was positive or negative about this/these experiences. Finally, how do you see yourself teaching writing in your future classroom? Your comments will add a rich contribution to my research and the book. Please comment here or send your responses to me at mask92369@gmail.com.

My hypothesis is that those who do not teach and assess informally (i.e. portfolios) now within a true writing workshop did not, as students participate in a true writing workshop themselves. In the classes where I have observed some kind of process, teachers are most apt to assign set work on set days, such as Monday: first draft, Tuesday: peer response, Wednesday: editing, Thursday: revision, and Friday: final draft. True writing workshop, as you know, is recursive (meaning writers can move back and forth among the steps in a process), and the process is very individual, although many will experience some or all of the above steps.

Thank you in advance for your contribution to the discussion.

Mary Anna